Home Forums In Flight Emergencies VFR Comm Pilot Scenario 2

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8 replies, 7 voices Last updated by  Cat93449 1 month, 1 week ago
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  • #23995

    jokoenig
    Participant
    @jokoenig

    Talking about the second commercial pilot scenario I must say that this flight is far below my personal minimums for VFR flying. Also, I have no experience on a SR22 and – at the time of writing – no instrument rating yet. So, under no circumstances I would do a flight like this. Still, I’d like to share my thoughts for a hypothetical Go-Decision:

    Can you legally do this flight VFR?
    Legally, we could leave on a SVFR clearance in KTVC and stay in airspace G all the time after leaving airspace D. So, legally, its a yes.

    What altitudes will you fly?
    We need to stay in G, so maximum 700ft around the airports and max 1200ft for the rest of the flight. I would fly as high as possible, of course, slightly below the clouds.

    Who will you (if any) file a flight plan with?
    I would definitely go ahead and file a plan, probably using my iPad.

    Who will you notify of your intent to fly this route at this time, under these conditions?
    I’d tune in flight service and ask for VFR flight following.

    What emergency equipment do you need to have on-board a single engine airplane flying over water?
    Since this is a Part 91 flight, I assume 91.205(b)(12) applies and states “flotation gear readily available to each occupant” and “at least one pyrotechnic signaling device”. In our case, that means 2 adult life vests, 2 child life vests, a dingi and a light gun.

    What would you do if you smell smoke while taxiing out of Beaver Island for departure?
    Cancel the flight.

    What would you do if you smell smoke and noticed a small wire burning under the instrument panel 10nm after departure?
    Land on the next suitable airfield, in this case its probably KTVC again.

    What type of airspace will KTVC be when you arrive?
    Since the TWR is 0900-0600Z (DST shift applies), KTVC will be airspace D at all times during my flight.

    Can you do this flight legally if one of the navigation lights burns out when you land in Beaver Island?
    Depends on whether I fly after sunset.

    These are my thoughts so far. Again, under no circumstances at all I would even think of doing this flight in the real life. Right on the spot I see so many layers of the cheese-model already penetrated in the beginning:
    – Weather far below personal minumums
    – Children as passengers
    – Using a high-perfomance aircraft I’m not familiar with
    – Weather report stations are AUTO, so weather can be even worse in reality.

    Looking forward to hearing other opinions!

    Keep the blue side up!
    Johnny

  • #29345

    Mach2
    Participant
    @Mach2

    Interesting and I agree with Jonny’s decision not to fly that one even though opportunity exists for making a poor decision and attempt it, not good.

  • #29347

    Mach2
    Participant
    @Mach2

    Not intentional and don’t understand how this took place. My apologies.

  • #30863

    kwalker915
    Participant
    @kwalker915

    Common sense says to stay on the ground on this one. I am doing this one on and iPhone and cannot see the questions liste nor can I remember the weather in full, so I’m replying based on mememory. I agree with the first poster regarding legality, except I thought the owner was asking for a departure at 11 pm rather than AM. So I would have called a no go on the return flight home since a position light was burned out. Of course everyone needs a flotation device available to use. As for smoke and burning wires, 10 miles is only about 3 minutes from beaver island, so a return to beaver island would be the best diversion. The fox island airports would be just off your right hand side but neither is showing to be manned at any hours and having a potential crash landing there might result in a very delayed response from EMS. Beaver Island or CVX either one would be the most acceptable diversions.

    Bottom line is personal minimums and not crossing them. Staying under the cloud bank is acid running (frowned upon) and is just barely enough altitude for CAPS to be active and questionable as to whether it will be effective anyways. My personal minimums include no actual IFR on a single engine, no nights on a single engine unless I am within glide distance of a lighted runway, and no ice with a propeller. This is quite limiting but it stops me from doing this flight as it should any VFR pilot.

    Disregarding the weather, take off from Beaver and climb in a circle around it until you achieve sufficient altitude to reach CVX and take an indirect route that places you within easy reach of a lighted runway all the way home. But you can’t ever disregard the weather, can you!!?

  • #35481

    Nunavut
    Participant
    @Nunavut

    This seems to me to be an interesting and challenging scenario.

    Based on the facts provided the plane is now at KSJX and is looking to be flown back to KTVC departing around 11pm at night.

    The plane would be departing from KSJX (non-towered, G from surface to 700′ then E) and arriving at KTVC (after the tower is closed, thus E to 700′ then G from 700 to surface)

    To answer the questions posed:
    Can you legally do this flight VFR? Yes, you can depart and fly this flight under special VFR, but because this is a night flight, you must be instrument rated and be in an IFR equipped aircraft. Had this been a day flight with the same weather, you could just depart and stay in G airspace (1sm Clear of clouds) then get special VFR into KTVC. G airspace nighttime weather is 3-152 and we cannot meet those requirements per the Metars provided.

    What altitudes will you fly? Ideally you want to fly away from the weather so I am thinking below the overcast layer. Had this been at day and you were flying via the G airspace mins you would have to remain in G airspace and thus below 1,200′ due to visibility

    Who will you (if any) file a flight plan with? I typically use Foreflight to file my flight plans, but in this scenario one could call 1800-wxbrief or contact Green Bay FSS on 122.2 to file and open

    Who will you notify of your intent to fly this route at this time, under these conditions? I would notify a friend about my ETA

    What emergency equipment do you need to have on-board a single engine airplane flying over water? Since the plane will be operating for hire beyond gliding distance from the shore, a floatation device must be readily available for each passenger along with a pyrotechnic signaling device (Flare.) Had this been a not-for-hire flight, no flotation devices would be necessary due to the aircraft not being more then 50nm from the coast.

    What would you do if you smell smoke while taxiing out of Beaver Island for departure? This would lead to an immediate return to the ramp, and due to the time of night, the flight would be cancelled until a mechanic could take a look at the problem after Christmas.

    What would you do if you smell smoke and noticed a small wire burning under the instrument panel 10nm after departure? I would turn back to KSJX and land. This can be considered as an inflight emergency and I would notify Flight Following of the issue as well.

    What type of airspace will KTVC be when you arrive? KTVC is a part-time class D airport, and since we will be arriving outside of operating hours, it would become a class E

    Can you do this flight legally if one of the navigation lights burns out when you land in Beaver Island? This is a night flight and thus must follow 91.205 ATOMATO-FLAMES and FLAPS. Per FLAPS, Position/Nav Lights are required.

    I forgot to add, based on the above weather scenario, I would not do this flight.

    Please let me know if you disagree with or have any comments about what I posted. Thanks!

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  Nunavut.
  • #43266

    smarinello
    Participant
    @smarinello

    It’s a NO GO NO brainer, stay on the ground, it’s not good VFR flying weather. This is where ADM and IMSAFE kicks in. It’ll keep you and your passengers alive.

  • #46739

    mjensen
    Participant
    @mjensen

    well John has nailed it though there are a couple things I might choose differently:

    Who will you (if any) file a flight plan with?
    I would file a VFR plan with Green Bay FSS.

    What would you do if you smell smoke and noticed a small wire burning under the instrument panel 10nm after departure?
    I would do the immediate checklist items, turn the plan around and land immediately. I have a little experience in the SR-22 & 20. We would return very quickly, plus we are so low that time is a factor and if we loose the engine I would need a airport now.

    This is not a safe flight and there are many ORM items that are not mitigated well enough for me, plus my personal minimums would not be met.

  • #55210

    Cat93449
    Participant
    @Cat93449

    Regarding Wx, using a svfr, it is a legal take off Assuming no IR, it is a poor choice which could turn deadly in a weather scenario that is changing with cloud layers The position light is out, so it is out of compliance & illegal. Now a no-go is confirmed if the pilot was foolish enough to want to fly. End of story. There might be a better job around the corner for the pilot if the family man still needs to arrive at the destination that night.

  • #55211

    Cat93449
    Participant
    @Cat93449

    Done.

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